"The last age should show your heart/For lady you deserve this state/Nor would I love at lower rate"

[larryhammer]

So last weekend, we snuck away from family obligations for an afternoon of hiking on Antelope Island -- where there are, indeed, pronghorn antelope. More surprising, though, was the presence of even more bison -- as in a couple thousand of them wandering around the preserve in their bovine way, for definitions of "bovine" that include large, shaggy, and wild. Not just on the green hills, either, but on the beaches, the roads, the trails, and so on. The sort of wild, shaggy bovines that you have to let wander off the way before you can continue on.

This brought up an important question. See, from years of camping throughout the American west, we've developed a rule-of-thumb definition for what counts as the Middle Of Nowhere: not just that there are cattle on the road, but that the cattle have just as much business being on the road as you do. (NB: this definition does not work in Europe, or indeed anywhere transhumance is practiced, and probably not the rest of the world.) What about buffalo, though? If they have just as much business there are you, is it still middle of nowhere?

Your opinion on this important issue is solicited.

---L.

Comments

[alpha-strike.livejournal.com]

The presence of a road or fence makes me question whether it's the middle of nowhere. If a road doesn't preclude being nowhere, I would think that herds of undomesticated animals conducting their lawful business in the privacy of their homes suggests that you're reasonably far from civilization, if not the middle of nowhere.

[larryhammer]

A point.

---L.

[sartorias.livejournal.com]

I tend to think of the Middle of Nowhere as either steppe or desert or flat plains. Absence of visual life forms (there might be tons of lizards and prairie dogs but I can't see 'em)

[larryhammer]

Have you ever driven US-50 in western Utah/eastern Nevada?

---L.

[sartorias.livejournal.com]

Not sure. I've driven a few roads back and forth, but it's hard for me to remember which was which.

[larryhammer]

There are long stretches where, aside from the road itself, there are no signs of anything human at all -- not even fence.

---L.

[steepholm.livejournal.com]

I grew up five miles from the New Forest, where ponies have right of way in the road and tend to use it (http://mycreativespirit.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/new-forest-ponies.html).... That's in the middle of the southern England.

[larryhammer]

Which further proves my parenthetical ...

[mount-oregano.livejournal.com]

Yes. I'm studying for a Spanish driver's license, and some of the rules I need to know involve right-of-way for domestic animals. If it's a "cañada" or transhumance road, they have absolute preference, even over pedestrians. (As if I'm going to argue with a steer over who goes first.)

[larryhammer]

The right of way of domesticated animals in places they belong is a common law.

---L.

[mount-oregano.livejournal.com]

Common law only functions in common law countries, which are Britain and its former colonies. Spain and most of Europe is under civil law, an inheritance from the Romans. Everything is based on written law. In fact, a few Roman laws are still on the books. If no one remembers to erase them, they're in force.

The transhumance roads exist the result of medieval or royal decree. One law has been on the books for about five centuries or so, never repealed, and it was rediscovered a couple of decades ago. It permits sheep to be driven through the city of Madrid for a payment of 40 escudos, so every year some shepherds hand the mayor 40 euros and drive a flock through the center of town -- totally a show, since the sheep are trucked in and the shepherds wear medieval costumes, but kids love it and learn a little bit about agriculture and history.

Not the middle of nowhere, but for a few hours on a Sunday morning, downtown Madrid rightly belongs to sheep, and cars can just wait.

[larryhammer]

Er, I meant not that it's part of the Common Law of Britain, but that it's a common law to have.

---L.

[steepholm.livejournal.com]

Indeed.

[kateelliott.livejournal.com]

Hart Mountain Wildlife Refuge (pronghorn antelope!) was a place I would define as the middle of nowhere. Or lots of places in the Eastern Oregon (one of my favorite landscapes).

I would define it as a place from which you can't see a house, or in which from the only house or tiny town (population 23) you can't see any other possible signs of habitation.

True about the cattle (and I would add buffalo).

[larryhammer]

That definition would include most mountain roads in the American west. I can get to such a spot in less than half an hour from my house, on a popular road up the mountain into the forest.

---L.

[kateelliott.livejournal.com]

Think how long it would take to walk out of those places.

[larryhammer]

A point, that.

---L.

[movingfinger.livejournal.com]

In general, the animals of which this is true---cattle, buffalo, moose, elk---are animals with whom you or your automobile will lose any argument, so I would say yes, it's usually an indicator you're in the middle of nowhere.

An exception would be sea lions and seals; along the American coasts, harbor seals, elephant seals, and sea lions regularly get a yen to wander and end up in unusual locations like the hood of a police car or a car park.

[larryhammer]

"Usually" is possibly a good qualifier.

[casacorona.livejournal.com]

I dunno. The presence of random bison just might indicate that you're on the far edge of nowhere.

[larryhammer]

Does the ability to see downtown Salt Lake City from where we were affect that?

---L.

[thistleingrey.livejournal.com]

It isn't on Catalina Island (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalina_Island_bison_herd), that's for sure.

[mount-oregano.livejournal.com]

Okay, I understand. It's the uncommon laws, though, that are more fun.

[larryhammer]

True, dat.

---L.