“breathe into me and make me real / bring me to life / wake me up inside / call my name”

[larryhammer]

One lesson’s readings from Classical Chinese for Everyone: A Guide for Absolute Beginners* by Bryan W. Van Norden (translations mine):

Fan Chi asked about benevolence. The Master said, “Love people.” He asked about wisdom. The Master said, “Know people.” (Analects 12.22)

The Master said: One who is benevolent finds benevolence peaceful. One who is wise finds benevolence beneficial. (Analects 4.2)

All very well. And pretty straightforward. But then there’s the third part of the reading:

The Master said: One who is wise enjoys water. One who is benevolent enjoys mountains. (Analects 6.23)

I am still pondering just what Confucius is getting at with this one.


* Which I highly recommend to anyone who might be remotely interested in the Chinese classics. It is written assuming no knowledge of Modern Chinese, though of course if you have any, that will help give you context.

---L.

Subject quote from Bring Me to Life, Evanescence.

Comments

[asakiyume]

I wonder if the wise enjoy water because water is always changing, like our lives/the world--water shows this. You've got me on the mountain, though! Maybe it provides us with stuff? ... But I mean, so do valleys, so...

[larryhammer]

I know, right? I feel like I've wandered into an echo of Laozi.

[sartorias]

I think we might be missing some cultural context, like casual references to the southeast corner always being preferred, etc.

I agree that is a good book, though written for the math minded.

[larryhammer]

I feel that way about most of Analects, about cultural context.

written for the math minded

How so?

[sartorias]

Many of his patterns are very like formulae. His grammatical explanations are difficult to parse for a peabrain like self. It's such a good book in all other aspects, I like dipping into it to read in bits, once I realized I was 一窍不通 to use it as a text.

[larryhammer]

Gotcha. Yeah, a lot of the grammar patterns are very ... pattern-based.

[graydon]

Isn't water associated with the feminine in this cultural context? (It seems unlikely that Confucius is going to be going for "cits like fractals".)

And I don't remember well enough what the cultural context for mountains was, but there certainly was one; you meet interesting people travelling through the mountains in a lot of Zen and Taoist stories.

[larryhammer]

Water is indeed yin, but mountains are not yang -- their sunny sides were but their shaded sides yin. There is indeed a lot of cultural associations with mountains, but traditional rituals aside, usually they're paired with water features (rivers, lakes) as part of a landscape.

So, yeah.

[graydon]

"traditional rituals aside" is maybe not the right thought in a context of Confucius? Maybe benevolent people like traditional rituals?

(This feels like one of those questions that has an extensive literature somewhere.)

[larryhammer]

I'm pretty sure there's an extensive literature in Chinese -- there's hella commentaries built up over the millennia.

[wildestranger]

Perhaps it is easier to both know and love people if one is not so near them, that is, living in retreat on a mountain or by a lake.

[larryhammer]

Hmmm....