larryhammer: a wisp of smoke, label: "it comes in curlicues, spirals as it twirls" (curlicues)
Larry Hammer ([personal profile] larryhammer) wrote2014-02-23 08:53 am
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"yes the king of the beavers / you cannot deceive us / and you can't fool owls"

So there's this the odd linguistic feature of English pronouns in compound subjects where they switch between nominative and objective forms depending on the order. That is, "Me and Julio were down by the schoolyard" sounds entirely correct even though technically it should be "I and Julio" -- which actually sounds so stiff it feels actively wrong -- but in the reverse form, it's "Julio and I were down by the schoolyard" that sounds correct ("Julio and me" sounds acceptable as a colloquialism but to be avoided when speaking in formal registers).

Does anyone know the name for this?

---L.

Subject quote from "Owls," Weebl.
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[identity profile] sartorias.livejournal.com 2014-02-23 04:50 pm (UTC)(link)
No, but I wonder if it's somehow akin to how allergic we are to the simple present tense--we always opt for the progressive present, but are free to use the simple past, etc.

We don't say "I eat" but we can say "I ate, I have eaten" etc

[identity profile] mount-oregano.livejournal.com 2014-02-23 06:13 pm (UTC)(link)
It's a solecism, a non-standard usage or grammatical construction, although that's a large category and not limited to this construction.

[identity profile] steepholm.livejournal.com 2014-02-23 08:02 pm (UTC)(link)
"Me and Julio were down by the schoolyard" sounds very informal to me - I certainly wouldn't use that construction in more formal other contexts.

Whether anyone ever actually told me this I'm not sure, but I have it in my brain that to say "I and Julio" rather an "Julio and I" is objectionable because it seems egotistical to put oneself first on the list.

[identity profile] taigerchily.livejournal.com 2014-02-24 07:36 am (UTC)(link)
Back at school we've been taught to always use "Julio and me", and not "Julio and I". They told us that you do not use "I" at an enumeration like "Julio and me", but always just "me", and that you only use "I" if it's you alone. And I think someone told me once that if it's "we" (Julio and me), it's always "me".

But then, I am not a native English speaker, my teacher hasn't been a native English speaker, and school - that was when? Way back in the Middle Ages? :)

So... Which one is correct? Julio and I, or Julio and me? I have to admit that I am more than confused now :)
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