Larry Hammer (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
larryhammer) wrote2005-08-04 09:40 pm
larryhammer) wrote2005-08-04 09:40 pm
Entry tags:
After the SPOILERIFIC apocalypse
More general discussion here.
Okay, let me see if I have this straight. The Anthy and Akio we were seeing were in some sense projections of the bound Anthy and Dios. I'm going to call the original Anthy, the one who bound Dios and was bound, Anthy1 and Utena's friend, the Rose Bride, Anthy2. We meet Anthy1 three times during the series: when Utena comes out of the coffin (as shown in episode 34), in the backstory Dios tells her then (also ep.34: I'm assuming what we were shown was correct, and it was Dios there, and when Akio said it was him he was lying), and in the coffin Utena opens at the end (ep.39).
Possibly because of his time in the world, Akio no longer shared Dios's goals -- he said as much in ep.13. Akio wanted not to free Dios, but (re)take the power of Dios for his own ends. Anthy2 was also changed, though she kept the goal of freeing herself (both selves?), but became willing to do anything to for that goal. Utena's friendship with Anthy2, however, changed her again, to being able to accept love and friendship (which is why Dios picked Utena). But this change was not enough for her to save Utena -- thus the failure of Anthy2 to grasp her hand -- but merely to want to. So while Anthy1 (and possibly Anthy2???) were freed, Utena was lost. But not irredeemably, given Anthy1's departure and vow.
Do I have that straight?
---L.
Okay, let me see if I have this straight. The Anthy and Akio we were seeing were in some sense projections of the bound Anthy and Dios. I'm going to call the original Anthy, the one who bound Dios and was bound, Anthy1 and Utena's friend, the Rose Bride, Anthy2. We meet Anthy1 three times during the series: when Utena comes out of the coffin (as shown in episode 34), in the backstory Dios tells her then (also ep.34: I'm assuming what we were shown was correct, and it was Dios there, and when Akio said it was him he was lying), and in the coffin Utena opens at the end (ep.39).
Possibly because of his time in the world, Akio no longer shared Dios's goals -- he said as much in ep.13. Akio wanted not to free Dios, but (re)take the power of Dios for his own ends. Anthy2 was also changed, though she kept the goal of freeing herself (both selves?), but became willing to do anything to for that goal. Utena's friendship with Anthy2, however, changed her again, to being able to accept love and friendship (which is why Dios picked Utena). But this change was not enough for her to save Utena -- thus the failure of Anthy2 to grasp her hand -- but merely to want to. So while Anthy1 (and possibly Anthy2???) were freed, Utena was lost. But not irredeemably, given Anthy1's departure and vow.
Do I have that straight?
---L.
no subject
I read that as a deliberate taunt, to get her up and moving again, rather than a genuine attempt to stop her. He was saying infuriating things (you poor thing, you tried so hard, but you're only a girl) rather than calming ones.
no subject
What happened to Dios at the end, if he was there, though?
no subject
---L.
no subject
If they are separate, I don't think they unified in the same way the 'Anthys' did. Akio hasn't learned anything or escaped his own prison.
Late to the party...
I see Dios and Anthy2 as the "good, pure" sides of each of the respective folks and Akio and Anthy1 as the "worldly, corruptible" sides of each. As previously said, Utena brings revolution to Anthy's world not only by healing her and merging those back together, but giving her the strength to finally leave the game, which you get the impression that Utena may not have even been the first to have been sucked into (Akio talks about rewriting the rules for the Rose Crest like they either previously failed or he rewrites the game every time).
That said, Akio/Dios' world is never healed, and he remains a broken person.
Would also be the key as to why "never losing nobility" is important. Nobility can be seen as synonymous as purity, perhaps. And while Utena mainly still had that, by allowing herself to even be corrupted slightly be Akio's seduction meant that while her noble side is not yet totally locked away, the wordly side did for brief periods come forth. Which is perhaps, why, in the end she lost.
The main question I have is that since no one really quite remembers who Utena is or what happened, we cannot even be sure if Utena is even alive or if she is what her own mental state would be.
Also of note for anyone who runs across this thread and has seen the UTENA THE MOVIE (which ends quite differently), did anyone notice that Jury's story around the barbecue near in the second to last episode echoes elements of the feature film?
Re: Late to the party...
---L.
Re: Late to the party...
In the second to last episode Akio descrinbes Anthy as a "poor foolish creature" whose "heart was so pure she sacrificed herself for a prince that never even existed". This is why I was thinking of it in application to the Anthy in the coffin and Dios; I find less support at the moment for its application to Utena.
I definitely have some rewatching to do as well...