After the SPOILERIFIC apocalypse

[larryhammer]

More general discussion here.

Okay, let me see if I have this straight. The Anthy and Akio we were seeing were in some sense projections of the bound Anthy and Dios. I'm going to call the original Anthy, the one who bound Dios and was bound, Anthy1 and Utena's friend, the Rose Bride, Anthy2. We meet Anthy1 three times during the series: when Utena comes out of the coffin (as shown in episode 34), in the backstory Dios tells her then (also ep.34: I'm assuming what we were shown was correct, and it was Dios there, and when Akio said it was him he was lying), and in the coffin Utena opens at the end (ep.39).

Possibly because of his time in the world, Akio no longer shared Dios's goals -- he said as much in ep.13. Akio wanted not to free Dios, but (re)take the power of Dios for his own ends. Anthy2 was also changed, though she kept the goal of freeing herself (both selves?), but became willing to do anything to for that goal. Utena's friendship with Anthy2, however, changed her again, to being able to accept love and friendship (which is why Dios picked Utena). But this change was not enough for her to save Utena -- thus the failure of Anthy2 to grasp her hand -- but merely to want to. So while Anthy1 (and possibly Anthy2???) were freed, Utena was lost. But not irredeemably, given Anthy1's departure and vow.

Do I have that straight?

---L.

Comments

[marith.livejournal.com]

Anthy2 was also changed, though she kept the goal of freeing herself (both selves?), but became willing to do anything to for that goal.

Did Anthy really have a goal? The sense I got was that she was simply hiding as much as possible from herself and her actions. The Rose Bride has no will of her own, she's a 'doll with no heart'. After sacrificing everything herself for Dios/Akio for so long, she doesn't know how to be any other way. (Possibly it hurts less if there isn't a real person there to be hurt, in a sense.)


For me, the way Utena revolutionized the world was in reaching the real person Anthy, not the dissociated shell, and convincing her to take an action for herself. She grabbed for Utena's hand, knowing that Utena would be killed or terribly hurt trying to save her - accepting someone else's sacrifice instead of being the sacrifice. If there was an Anthy1 and an Anthy2, they merged back together at that point. I'm not sure that they ever were completely separate, but Anthy at the end is much more like a whole person, much more present, than before.

(The events in the ep.12 duel (with Touga), and the lyrics for that duel song explain some of what's going on in Anthy's head and the nature of the split. I think. Maybe.)

...And I have another theory, said the brontosaurus expert, but will hold off unless you actually want to hear it. :)

[larryhammer]

More ruminations. Akio made a couple key mistakes, but two seem paramount to me, because they made his scemes inherently self-defeating. He needed a prince of the noblest heart to open the Rose Gate, and believed that wielding the sword pulled from that heart would do it. Apparently this was wrong, but then he made it worse: he weakened the heart of the strongest prince (determined by the dueling competition) by seducing her, so he'd be able to take her own sword away. But that, of course, weakened her heart's sword -- making it not strong enough to open the gate, even if that had been the key.

Three things I wish had been shown in the last episode, but weren't for obvious reasons: Where Anthy got the sword she stabbed Utena with, the moment Anthy realized Akio's schemes had failed (and what her reaction was), and what effect Akio's breaking Utena's blade had on her.

---L.

[janni.livejournal.com]

Still not convinced there's a present-day version of Dios. Given that at the end Dios was also trying to keep Utena from succeeding (stay here ... stop struggling), I think Dios really did probably become Akio with the passing of time.

Am fascinated, more and more as I think about it, at how Utena manages to be at once prince and sacrifice, as if they're two sides of the same coin. Which may be part of the point.

Minor threads: Liked some of the wrap-up, like Shiori getting a life and taking up her own fencing sword. Want to know whether/how Nanami comes to terms with Touga, who she still thinks isn't her brother (implication is that she's come to terms with being normal, not above/better than anyone else); and where Miki/Kozue's relationship winds up (did he let go of her around the time he let go of Anthy?)

I love that Miki now has an assistant with his stopwatch-work now. Even though we still don't know what said assistant is assisting with.

Like Wakaba's new fangirl, and her finding her onion prince, both, too.

Hate the business of characters forgetting about Utena. Always hate stories that involve forgetting the adventure after, even if in theory it's Anthy's remembering that matters.