Larry Hammer (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
larryhammer) wrote2005-08-04 09:40 pm
larryhammer) wrote2005-08-04 09:40 pm
Entry tags:
After the SPOILERIFIC apocalypse
More general discussion here.
Okay, let me see if I have this straight. The Anthy and Akio we were seeing were in some sense projections of the bound Anthy and Dios. I'm going to call the original Anthy, the one who bound Dios and was bound, Anthy1 and Utena's friend, the Rose Bride, Anthy2. We meet Anthy1 three times during the series: when Utena comes out of the coffin (as shown in episode 34), in the backstory Dios tells her then (also ep.34: I'm assuming what we were shown was correct, and it was Dios there, and when Akio said it was him he was lying), and in the coffin Utena opens at the end (ep.39).
Possibly because of his time in the world, Akio no longer shared Dios's goals -- he said as much in ep.13. Akio wanted not to free Dios, but (re)take the power of Dios for his own ends. Anthy2 was also changed, though she kept the goal of freeing herself (both selves?), but became willing to do anything to for that goal. Utena's friendship with Anthy2, however, changed her again, to being able to accept love and friendship (which is why Dios picked Utena). But this change was not enough for her to save Utena -- thus the failure of Anthy2 to grasp her hand -- but merely to want to. So while Anthy1 (and possibly Anthy2???) were freed, Utena was lost. But not irredeemably, given Anthy1's departure and vow.
Do I have that straight?
---L.
Okay, let me see if I have this straight. The Anthy and Akio we were seeing were in some sense projections of the bound Anthy and Dios. I'm going to call the original Anthy, the one who bound Dios and was bound, Anthy1 and Utena's friend, the Rose Bride, Anthy2. We meet Anthy1 three times during the series: when Utena comes out of the coffin (as shown in episode 34), in the backstory Dios tells her then (also ep.34: I'm assuming what we were shown was correct, and it was Dios there, and when Akio said it was him he was lying), and in the coffin Utena opens at the end (ep.39).
Possibly because of his time in the world, Akio no longer shared Dios's goals -- he said as much in ep.13. Akio wanted not to free Dios, but (re)take the power of Dios for his own ends. Anthy2 was also changed, though she kept the goal of freeing herself (both selves?), but became willing to do anything to for that goal. Utena's friendship with Anthy2, however, changed her again, to being able to accept love and friendship (which is why Dios picked Utena). But this change was not enough for her to save Utena -- thus the failure of Anthy2 to grasp her hand -- but merely to want to. So while Anthy1 (and possibly Anthy2???) were freed, Utena was lost. But not irredeemably, given Anthy1's departure and vow.
Do I have that straight?
---L.
no subject
Did Anthy really have a goal? The sense I got was that she was simply hiding as much as possible from herself and her actions. The Rose Bride has no will of her own, she's a 'doll with no heart'. After sacrificing everything herself for Dios/Akio for so long, she doesn't know how to be any other way. (Possibly it hurts less if there isn't a real person there to be hurt, in a sense.)
For me, the way Utena revolutionized the world was in reaching the real person Anthy, not the dissociated shell, and convincing her to take an action for herself. She grabbed for Utena's hand, knowing that Utena would be killed or terribly hurt trying to save her - accepting someone else's sacrifice instead of being the sacrifice. If there was an Anthy1 and an Anthy2, they merged back together at that point. I'm not sure that they ever were completely separate, but Anthy at the end is much more like a whole person, much more present, than before.
(The events in the ep.12 duel (with Touga), and the lyrics for that duel song explain some of what's going on in Anthy's head and the nature of the split. I think. Maybe.)
...And I have another theory, said the brontosaurus expert, but will hold off unless you actually want to hear it. :)
no subject
At this point, after sleeping on it, my biggest question right now is why/how Akio's goals came to diverge from Dios's, especially since the Anthy's remained constant -- to escape.
And yes, I'm intrested in your dinosaur theory.
---L.
no subject
no subject
In a lot of ways she reminded me of a child abuse victim: devoted to the person causing her suffering and trying to please them, and at the same time hating and resenting everything and acting that out. We see her use her powers to manipulate people, for revenge and for convenience, but never directly to help herself or spare herself pain.
no subject
---L.
no subject
Getting slapped around by Nanami's minions didn't seem to be necessary to advance the Plan, so why did she put up with it?
no subject
---L.
no subject
Could be, but given the range of the Rose Bride's powers, there were surely ways she could have protected herself while making it look completely coincidental.